WEEKLY META: Eren

If you have something you want to discuss, vote here to make it the next week's topic! These topic can be characters, groups of characters (e.g. the Scouting Legion, titans, the relationships within the 104th), themes (e.g. human vs. monster), setting (e.g. the period, sexism within society vs. the military), or whatever you think is large or interesting enough to generate discussion.

I vote for Mikasa for the next round.

Seconded.

Eren's a total bottom, am I right?

I definitely think he'd be really eager to please his partner, so he'd switch given their preference – but given the choice, yep, a bottom. A really loud, needy one.

A really loud, needy one.

LOL, yep. Though I agree he's fine with switching.

I'm fine with either one as long as he isn't characterized as some whiny uke type. But then, I can accept pretty much any character topping or bottoming as long as they're IC. I do feel that it might depend on his relationship with his SO, though.

AYRT - yeah, that's generally how I roll too. Uke!Eren gets on my nerves.

Concerning the popular fanon that Eren is stupid – is there actually any instance in canon that supports this? He occasionally makes a wrong or bad decision, but out of hot-headedness and ignorance, not stupidity. And he makes that joke about not understanding what's going on so better ask Armin, but then, no one understood at that time, iirc.

I can't remember him coming up with any ideas himself, like Armin does, unless you count as a child, deceiving and killing Mikasa's kidnappers. He made up and executed the plan well enough, and though the actual decision to confront the men was a terrible one imo, I can't bring myself to call it a stupid one, because he clearly thought it through and chose the optimal choice for what he wanted. And he doesn't have any really bad ideas stemming from not thinking something through well, but is instead more or less content to follow orders, or his ideas fail from bad luck and the same lack of knowledge that everyone has, e.g. in the female titan arc.

Overall he doesn't come across as particularly clever, but I can't see any evidence of him being anything below average either.

He's not stupid at all. May I recommend to you Dragoplateau/Kuruk's meta about Eren (http://dragoplateau.tumblr.com/post/63901105219/were-missing-the-point-eren-jaeger-is-not-a)? It's very, very long but absolutely brilliant. Here are the bits relevant to your question:

He is not stupid. ... [H]e possesses an innate curiosity and wonder, or desire for knowledge. He explicitly states he does not want to live the rest of his life “as an ignorant.” Eren is hungry for knowledge; he needs to know about the outside world, and that is the reason why he always intended to join the Scouting Legion.

Dragoplateau names that thirst for knowledge as one of the three fundamentals of Eren's nature, the other two being a capacity for empathy and an immutable sense of justice.

I suspect the fanon of him as stupid arose out of three factors: 1. his rage interfering with his reasoning abilities (which is true, but he's gotten better about that); 2. contrasting him with Armin, who's smarter than anyone else; and 3. certain Ereri shippers making him into an airheaded uke.

Well, the official character stats in the "Inside Kou" SNK guide book give him a 3/10 on intelligence (compared to a 10/10 for Armin, a 9/10 for Mikasa or a 7/10 for Jean. The only one who has also 3/10 is Connie and Historia comes close with a 4/10).

That being said, I agree with the anon above me that Eren has a lot of intellectual curiosity but his temper frequently gets in the way of making calm and rational decisions. But he can be pretty cunning on occasion like killing those slavers or tricking Reiner into a false sense of security before he beats him up with his stumps (the former was fairly clever, the latter not so much).

I do think that people don't give Eren enough credit for being very open-minded: he's fine with Annie and Marco joining the MP and even admires them and despite hating titans he doesn't judge Hange for their love of titans and is very interested in their theories.

That being said, I do think that Eren can have a kind of simplistic and B/W views on things, but again, as long as he doesn't fall into that pattern of thinking his openness to new ideas kind of balances it out.

Maybe it's better to say that he'll never be someone to talk eloquently or wax poetic about complex math, but I think he could learn even things like these if he had the passion for them. Shadis did remark that Eren made it into the top 10 because he worked so hard at every aspect of his training.

Well, the official character stats in the "Inside Kou" SNK guide book give him a 3/10 on intelligence (compared to a 10/10 for Armin, a 9/10 for Mikasa or a 7/10 for Jean. The only one who has also 3/10 is Connie and Historia comes close with a 4/10).

Jean is that much smarter than Eren? I mean, I love Jean, but he's kind of an idiot. Also, there's no way Eren isn't smarter than Connie. A tree stump is smarter than Connie.

Well, Erwin has a 10/10 but the current arc makes me doubt that so I wouldn't take these stats too seriously.

Especially since these numbers are kind of simplistic and don't factor in things like emotional intelligence vs academic intelligence.

Like, I'd say Eren's emotional intelligence is fairly high and he can be as I mentioned cunning. (And to be fair, at least Connie knows his limits. The poorest creatures are the ones who are dumb and don't even know it.) I guess what can be said in Jean's favor is that he was the only one who figured out why Erwin lured the FT into the forest besides Armin.

But back to Eren - the only explanation I have is that whoever did these stats might have been too focused on academics which is something I can see Eren not be too good at and his temper and recklessness also does lead towards him making some dumb decisions or sometimes decisions which would have been not that bad if he had more patience and put a bit more thought into it (like the Reiner thing).

AYRT - Ah, yeah, if they're talking purely about academics, that makes sense. I think Eren's got the raw intelligence for it, given how fascinated he was by Hange's research, but he's too impatient and impulsive to do well in a classroom. With some maturity, that could change.

It doesn't surprise me that Erwin, a professor's son, would score high marks for academic smarts. He's also emotionally intelligent, great at manipulating and inspiring people. And he's not a bad strategist, either — he did come up with that innovative formation. But he's extremely single-minded in his goals, and he is willing to take insane amounts of risk in pursuit of them. He's, essentially, a fanatic, and he's going to become the Survey Corps' highest-profile martyr. And I suspect he's perfectly fine with that.

So how about Eren's relationships with Armin, Mikasa, Jean, Historia, Hange, Levi, etc. ?

Since he's the pro tag he kind of gets around and interacts with the most people and as a result has the biggest number of developed relationships.

Which of his relationships do you particularly enjoy, which do you dislike?
About which one do you have an unpopular opinion?

This could be an unpopular opinion (I'm not good with meta and I don't read nearly enough of it), but Eren's relationship with Levi bothers me, sometimes. One of my favorite things about Eren is his spirit and his fearlessness (recklessness?), and the fact that Levi intimidates him kind of squashes that. But then, everyone seems a little weaker standing next to Levi, so maybe that's just a problem I have with Levi in general. He's certainly not a favorite of mine.

That said, Ereri isn't exactly a NOtp of mine. I'd be disappointed if it happened in canon, but I'm indifferent to it in fanfic. (Clarification: I'd be disappointed if any romance had a big part in the series, though I have plenty of ships I wouldn't mind seeing to a small degree. I feel like SNK is doing very well without romance.)

Ereri seems to be one of those love-it-or-hate-it things. A lot of people don't like it at all, so you're not alone. I ship it but it's not an OTP for me (I multi-ship). And, yes, I'd agree that we do not really need more romance in this canon.

I'm meh about Eren's relationship with Mikasa. Obviously, there's a deep connection there due to their formative experience killing the slavers, and he definitely does care about her. But it's awkward, due to her unrequited love for him (or her being an overprotective big sister, if you prefer to see it that way). Ideally, I'd love to ship the Shinganshina Trio, but because Mikasa has no chemistry with Eren and I can't really see her and Armin as a couple either, I never write it that way.

His relationship with Armin is a very tight friendship, with far more in common between them than between either of them and Mikasa — they have a bond of intellect and hope, not a bond of blood and violence. The Trost arc, where each rescues the other, really points that up. I was saddened by Isayama's comment that by the end of the story they will not be so close, perhaps will even have fallen out, but given the radical character arcs they and other people are on, I can see it happening.

It's interesting to compare Eren's and Jean's character arcs. Both of them are learning to see in shades of grey, but in Eren's case he's learning to think first and act later, whereas Jean is (hopefully) learning that sometimes you have to act and not think too hard. As fun as their fighting can be to write about ~~(especially when it turns into sex)~~, it's kind of neat that they seem destined to meet somewhere in the middle, temperament-wise, as they mature. Given that Armin is on a markedly different sort of development arc, I wonder whether Eren will eventually grow closer to Jean than to Armin, though I have not seen any hints of that so far.

Historia's development is still kind of blurry right now, so it's hard for me to comment on her relationship with Eren yet. I liked the conversation they have in Ch. ~54, where he tells her that her Krista persona was fake to the point of creepiness; it's feedback she needs to hear (and it highlights his emotional intelligence, as someone alluded to above). Given the predicament they're both in, and the appearance of "Geographica" in Eren's memories, I'm hoping for a stronger eventual bond between them.

I find the dynamic between Levi and Eren fascinating. Very few people, not even Mikasa, can really control Eren, but Levi can, and Eren's deference to him has IMO less to do with Levi's ability to kill him in titan form than with how Eren has idolized him from childhood. I've liked watching them develop a working relationship, particularly during and after the 57th Expedition — Levi giving Eren the choice of whether to transform or not (albeit with some emotional manipulation), and later bearing him no ill will for choosing not to shift, which cost Levi his squad. The narrative seems to be moving Mikasa into place as his protégée now instead of Eren, but if/when we see Eren and Levi fighting together again in the manga I will be curious to see if Eren is as willing as Mikasa is to buy into Levi's "by any means necessary" mentality. Given his character development, it's not clear that this will happen.

Obviously, Hange is a role model for Eren in how she learned to mitigate her pure rage with intellectual curiosity, and I was really charmed by that all-nighter they pulled to talk about titan science. That said, with her likely to take over command of the Corps, I wonder how she'll "manage" Eren, especially since we've learned that he is not humanity's only hope anymore. She's not as ruthless as Erwin but she can fake it if she has to.

I'm not that fond of the Shifter Trio, so I tend not to have too many thoughts about Eren's interactions with them.

I kind of wish I could like Mikasa/Eren since I like them individually, and their relationship does have traits I enjoy in my ships (plus it has a good chance of becoming canon) but...
It kind of bothers me in various ways?
On the one hand I do find Mikasa's love and devotion for Eren touching, on the other hand he is pretty hostile towards her and she just kind of takes it. Plus, this is pointing out the obvious, but she has devoted so much of her life to Eren that it's kind of unhealthy. Even if he fell in love with her eventually, he'd never be as much about her as she is about him and that would lead to problems sooner or later.

Chapter 50 addressed some of their relationship problems since it did kind of lead towards Eren having less of an inferiority complex towards her because Mikasa reminded him that even if he was unable to save Hannes and various others he made a difference in her life. But I doubt that it's all gone now.

Plus, their relationship could use a scene where it's just the two of them and Eren enjoys their time together. As it is, even if Eren denies it, their relationship is kind of sibling-/family-like because Eren lashes out at her to a degree that is more common among family members then simple friends. Plenty of people are more rude towards their family members because they can't walk away as easily as friends. Which also shows that he takes her for granted a lot of times instead of appreciating her loyalty to him.

On the other hand, I can understand Eren's side of things, too, because Mikasa does baby and patronize him and he is so reckless and impulsive that she becomes even more overprotective. It's kind of a vicious cycle where they kind of bring out the worst in each other on a fairly frequent basis.

I'd be open to a romance to them if canon addresses their issues fully (and I'd love a fanfic like that, too), but as it is I can only picture a romance between as the same thing it is now: Eren doing reckless and rebellious stuff and Mikasa constantly trying to tighten the leash or doing damage control. That sounds stressful and frustrating. Plus, Mikasa takes on so much yet she doesn't really have anyone she can really lean on even if she is close to Eren and Armin both. I suppose that's probably her choice, but she could really someone with whom she can break down, vent her feelings or get some comfort hug from. I don't mean a romantic partner necessarily, just a friend she can trust.

AYRT

On the one hand I do find Mikasa's love and devotion for Eren touching, on the other hand he is pretty hostile towards her and she just kind of takes it. Plus, this is pointing out the obvious, but she has devoted so much of her life to Eren that it's kind of unhealthy. Even if he fell in love with her eventually, he'd never be as much about her as she is about him and that would lead to problems sooner or later.

"Pretty hostile" might be too strongly put. He honestly does care about her: "I'll coil [your scarf around you] as many times as I have to." And look at his face, when they're riding back in the cart after the battle and Mikasa is lying on the floor.

Eren is not without emotional intelligence, as we were talking about upthread, but he does not handle Mikasa well. Some of it may be cluelessness about how to handle anything in the romantic arena, which is normal for teenagers. OTOH, she has declared that she owes him a life-debt for rescuing her from the slavers and igniting her will to fight. That's a very heavy burden she's laid on him as well as herself. He doesn't want it, but she won't let him absolve her of the debt. This, to me, is the heart of his ambivalent treatment of her and why she puts up with it, much more so than any sense of inferiority he's ever had.

I don't think that the two of them spending time alone together will change this dynamic. Mikasa needs to shift more of her focus off Eren, and Eren needs to rein in his impulsiveness more. Their respective character arcs are leaning in those directions, although with the complicating factor that Mikasa is taking (so to speak) moral pointers from Levi now. We still don't know how that will square with Eren, whose worldview is growing less black and white.

What I am afraid of is that Mikasa will be killed toward the end of the series, Eren will be guilt-wracked for having taken her for granted, and his pain will at least in part fuel a massive, epic battle in which he himself will die (sacrificial lion trope).

SA: I meant to add that I agree with you about Mikasa having nobody to lean on. Armin and Eren have both one another and her; Jean, Connie, and Sasha have one another; Reiner and Bertholdt have one another; and Ymir and Historia had each other until Chapter 50. Nobody gives Mikasa any emotional support. I don't think she expects it or realizes she needs it.

(Annie has also been devoid of emotional support since leaving her father's house, for very different reasons.)

(Am I late?)

If I recall correctly and I didn't read a mistranslation, Hanji and Erwin vented the hypotesis that the reason why the MP is so dead set on having Eren alive is because his Cohordinate powers (wherether used by Eren himself or by whomever will absorbe them by eating him) work not only on Titans but on humans, too.

...and then this was never addressed again. Aaaah.

In fact, the whole thing about Eren being able to freaking mind control Titans has kind of fallen along the sidelines. Ok, I agree that they found out at a weird time, but they did have time to organize the hardening experiments. But ok, they didn't have Titans to experiment upon and maybe they didn't want to risk what's left of the Scouting Legion in a possibly mind-melting experiment.

But still. It's a very interesting development and I would like to hear your theories about it.

Do they really work on humans? Have we seen some subtle instances of Eren mind controlling humans already, probably not even on purpose? How much time before Eren Jedi-mind-tricks Jean into neighing like a horse?

I won't even start to analyze the whole thing with the fuzzy memory and "Geographia" and the Titans speaking a different language but sometimes also speaking the humans' language and Eren sometimes knowing the Titans' language but then sometimes not because I have no idea what the heckie is going on with that, but if you have an unified Eren-centric theory of all the things be my guest.

I don't have any theories w/r/t those things but I suspect that the coordinate issue and "Geographia" will be touched upon again over the next several chapters. Supposedly, chapters 50-68 are the ones that have or will have the most important events/the greatest number of important events occurring in them. (Then, presumably, the last third of the canon will be grand finales and the typing up of loose ends.)

WEEKLY META: Eren

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a very specific question/theory (spoilers): Eren's powers

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