snk | CHAPTER 59 DISCUSSION

Both Levi and Mikasa were so refreshing to me - I spend too much time with their fanon version. I too was sure Levi was going to ride Jean's ass hardcore - I wouldn't even have faulted him too much, since Jean did disobey direct orders - it's kind of a big deal for a soldier - but he instead handled it so much better.

I was afraid Mikasa would be angry at Jean, too, but no - she seemed just a bit sad. And of course she was so sweet with Armin. I can't wait to see the Eren-Mikasa-Armin reunion now.

I was kind of expecting Levi to try and cheer up a shaken Armin, honestly, but he was better at it than what I thought he would be. And I wasn't expecting the Levi/Jean exchange at all, it was surprising on both sides. Jean admitted he was wrong and apologized, which is kind of a huge deal for him, and Levi handled it well, like I said.

See, now I wonder why the heck couldn't he use his words like this with Historia. He really must've been at the end of his wits there.

That was wonderful.

It was, wasn't it? I really am oddly proud of him. He did something that Armin could've done, too, but he managed it in a very Jean way. And he instinctively trusted Marlo because he reminded him of Eren aaaah so adorable.

Poor Armin. It really confirms my impression, that he was ready to talk about being ruthless a lot but probably isn't so ready to be ruthless. He still has a little bit of innocence left to lose.

I am also kind of fascinated by the way Jean and Armin's relationship is developing. I could churn out so much meta about Jean and the Shinganshina trio in general, actually, but let's not.

I also wanna fangirl my favorite MP guys rn (Nile and Hitch and Marlo) but I'm so tired so I'll just come back and squee tomorrow.

I too was sure Levi was going to ride Jean's ass hardcore

Ooh. I'll be in my bunk.

… no, seriously, I didn't think Levi was going to light into Jean for hesitating. I find it impossible to apply the word "nice" to Levi, ever. Here, I see him as being a responsible and pragmatic leader. The job includes not only kicking people's asses when necessary but boosting their morale when it's so low it threatens their ability to perform. It's very, very hard for most people to kill another human being, especially a young kid who's never done it before, and I'm sure Levi's aware of that.

We already have the precedent of him telling Eren that you make your best decision in the moment and live with it -- which he reiterated to Jean. And if Armin continues flagellating himself for having killed that soldier, he's not going to be any use to the rest of them. He needed to hear that he did the best thing possible under the circumstances, and to accept that his hands are dirty and move on.

And, yeah, I am completely unsurprised that Armin was able to do the necessary thing in the moment but that he lost his shit as soon as they were safe. It's completely in character for him. He wants to be ruthless, he's willing to try, but he struggles hard with issues of morality more than anyone else in SnK does.

As for why Levi "couldn't use his words" with Historia, I wonder if it had anything to do with his just having tortured Sanes. He seemed far less shaken than Hange was -- in fact, when we first see him in the apron (whose spatters imply that he's tortured people before), he's got a dreamy, in-the-flow expression on his face. But we also know that although he's not a good person, neither is he totally devoid of conscience, given how he reacted when he found out that all titans are people. One recurrent theme of this canon is that making these sorts of hard decisions have psychological as well as other consequences. Also, I think they were up all night torturing Sanes, and sleep deprivation never improves anyone's judgment (remember, he also failed to pass the information on to his squad until the very last minute, which he admitted was a mistake). So his thought process w/r/t Historia could have been, We spent hours pulling fingernails and teeth out of this guy and he gives us the key to solving our dilemma, and you're not going to go along with what we want?! Yeah, we'll see about that, you shitty brat.

I was waiting for Good Guy Marlo to make his reappearance! I'm rather surprised about Hitch, but I guess that when push comes to shove she's got more basic decency than she pretends. I suspect, though, that they've served their plot purposes and will die in the next few chapters. :(

In hindsight I could've worded it better but in even better hindsight, no, no I couldn't have. This chapter was so much fuel for some of my favorite rare Jean ships, lol.

Yeah, I don't think he's particularly nice, either, just doing a good job of handling the situation, but it surprised me because with him it's not a given.

Good point about the Historia thing. From what I remember, it really seems like they had that convo basically right after torturing Sanes for the whole night. Levi is much more affected by the violence and the pain around him, including those he himself inflicts, than what it seems at a first glance, despite his best efforts to come off as completely cold and ruthless. Of course this doesn't justify some of the things he does, but his character makes a lot more sense (and is more interesting) if you take this into account, instead of buying into the tough guy facade he puts up like a lot of fandom does.

I was always under the impression Hitch was a lot like Jean pre-Trost, going to great lengths to put up this loud, assholish attitude to hide what she perceives as her weak points, but actually capable of caring.

I gotta say what really surprised me about her, however, was how brave she was. There's that scene in which they've just been captured and they're kneeling on the ground and Levi is just about wondering what to do with them, and she goes right ahead and starts talking about how the SL killed civilian in Stohess and her friend Annie. That required some guts. Even Marlowe was surprised.

I hope they stay with us for at least another couple chapters, but yeah ;3;

Everything in the post was good, but I'm totally here for the Hitch love. I loved her in this chapter and was happy about how awesome she was allowed to be given how much shit people give her in fandom for being a mean girl and possibly sleeping around.

DA - If I never see the phrase "Hitch the Bitch" again it'll be too soon -- and I certainly don't mind fics in which she's the heavy, because until this chapter we hadn't seen her show any positive character.

instead of buying into the tough guy facade he puts up like a lot of fandom does.

I agree with you that Levi is more affected by the horrors around him than he lets on, but I don't believe it's a façade, in the sense that he consciously covers it up. I think that, at this point, the mask is welded on.

Have you ever read the fic "Audacity"? There's a description of his reaction when hears about the death of someone he liked and respected:

A part of him had expected this – a part of Levi nearly always expected the worst. But the dull ache began in his chest nonetheless, buried so deeply that he knew he would be unable to bring it to the surface even if he wanted to.

To me that reads just right. He has come to value emotional detachment because it has allowed him to survive, but he's been practicing it for so long that it's no longer a choice.

I was always under the impression Hitch was a lot like Jean pre-Trost, going to great lengths to put up this loud, assholish attitude to hide what she perceives as her weak points, but actually capable of caring.

I didn't feel that I'd seen enough of Hitch to draw much beyond superficial impressions, but now that you say it, I think you're right. And, yeah, she's got more spine than I thought — and is a quicker thinker as well.

He has come to value emotional detachment because it has allowed him to survive, but he's been practicing it for so long that it's no longer a choice.

That's...actually a much better way of wording it. It's probably partially a leftover of his days as a thug and not something he could be getting rid of even if he wanted to, yeah.

Audacity

I will have to read that fic sooner or later, since people keep reccing it to me. I don't read that much Erwin/Levi but I like fics with the premise of exploring the finer implications of dominance/submission dynamics so it sounds right up my alley.

Until now we really didn't have much on Hitch, but I remember somebody back at their first apperance comparing the scene with Annie, Hitch and Marlowe talking with a similar scene between Annie herself, Jean and Eren and I was like, "oooh I can see that alright".

I will have to read that fic sooner or later, since people keep reccing it to me. I don't read that much Erwin/Levi but I like fics with the premise of exploring the finer implications of dominance/submission dynamics so it sounds right up my alley.

AYRT: Be aware it's been jossed both by ACWNR and the main manga, so the canon divergence/AU factor is pretty strong by now. There are some scenes featuring Eren as a very small child (which are totally adorable), but otherwise there is no 104th presence at all yet. And for a fic of its length (and still in progress) it contains very little explicit content.

That said, if you like subtle D/s dynamics, UST, and loyalty, plus a great deal of plot and character development (including for secondary characters), you will probably like it. I've seen some complaints that Erwin is creepy in how he pushes Levi's boundaries, without the narrative acknowledging it. Personally I haven't gotten that read so far. Shoi has said, however, in comments that she does intend to go to darker places with Erwin's dominance over Levi, mirroring his moral ambiguity in canon.

Until now we really didn't have much on Hitch, but I remember somebody back at their first apperance comparing the scene with Annie, Hitch and Marlowe talking with a similar scene between Annie herself, Jean and Eren and I was like, "oooh I can see that alright".

Now I see it too. I wonder if Annie would have ended up mentoring Marlo to the same extent she did Eren, had she been able to keep her cover and remain in the MP for longer.

I actually think that if Levi hadn't told Jean in the end that his way is not wrong, Jean might not have pulled the whole thing with recruiting Marlo and Hitch. Without that last bit, he'd probably have lost so much confidence in himself that he would have strictly stuck by orders, at least for quite a while.

But because of Levi told him, Jean chose to trust his instincts one last time and his gamble payed off. It was definitely clear that Jean was extremely tense and aware that this was his last chance to prove himself because otherwise he'd lose all of respect Levi's respect and trust. (And it was a big thing that Levi trusted him despite Jean's recent mess up.)

I kind of think that Levi might be putting so much pressure on Historia (and to a lesser degree Eren) because they are more powerful and crucial to their plans than anyone else and if they don't perform perfectly, he thinks that everything will fail.
In contrast, he seems to be content to forgive Jean and Mikasa (the leg incident) and let them learn from their own mistakes while still making their own choices (kind of interesting since chapter 53 did establish that Levi values freedom).
Dunno, he's just way more forgiving and kind with them for any fuck up and the praise he gave Armin hints that he might be like that with him, too.
Or maybe Levi is getting sentimental and attached, despite planning to use Eren's friends in danger as a trigger for his powers. Levi did just lose another squad (though it was Hange's this time) so it would make sense if he'd be deep down relieved that he hadn't lost any of the kids on top of that, too. Obviously Eren and Historia are gone but at least they're still alive.

I actually think that if Levi hadn't told Jean in the end that his way is not wrong, Jean might not have pulled the whole thing with recruiting Marlo and Hitch. Without that last bit, he'd probably have lost so much confidence in himself that he would have strictly stuck by orders, at least for quite a while.

That's an interesting insight. I think you may be right. I sense Levi was trying to strike a balance - convincing Jean that he needs not to hesitate like that in the future, but not trying to discourage him from using his best judgment in general.

I kind of think that Levi might be putting so much pressure on Historia (and to a lesser degree Eren) because they are more powerful and crucial to their plans than anyone else and if they don't perform perfectly, he thinks that everything will fail.

Well, true, although there's the counterexample of Levi forgiving Eren for not shifting in the Forest of Giant Trees. Sure, his squad had put a metric ton of pressure on Eren not to, and Levi's "make your best decision" speech to Eren in the forest wasn't precisely devoid of emotional manipulation toward that end. But in the final analysis he gave Eren the choice, and he holds absolutely no grudge against Eren for how things turned out. (Overall I think their working relationship has gotten more solid and trustful from that point on.)

As for Historia, she has not really contributed very much overall to the successes (so to speak) of the Survey Corps. She's killed, what, only one titan? She was trying to protect Ymir from Mikasa before it was clear to the SC that Ymir was not hostile to humanity, which calls her loyalty to the SC into question. OTOH, Eren, Mikasa, Armin, and Jean had all proven their value in battle in one way or another by Chapter 56. If it weren't for Historia's parentage, I suspect Levi would view her as more expendable than the others.

So -- and I'm not defending how he went about things with her -- here's Historia, finally of great use to them, and she's digging her heels in and refusing to obey orders. Add that to what I said elsewhere in-thread about sleep deprivation and having just tortured Sanes, and it's kind of unsurprising, if not justifiable, that he reacted the way he did.

I am also kind of fascinated by the way Jean and Armin's relationship is developing. I could churn out so much meta about Jean and the Shinganshina trio in general, actually, but let's not.

Please please do and link me or post it here, I love stuff like this and Jean+Shinganshina trio is definitely a dynamic that is dear to my heart and should be talked about more.

DA seconds this request. In general I wouldn't mind seeing roundups of meta posts, the way we do fic rec posts.

CHAPTER 59 DISCUSSION

tl;dr Jean is my baby

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