Chapter 58 discussion

[silkycuttle]

Discuss chapter 58 (or previous chapters) in this post!

Spoilers can be posted here without warning.

Chinese raws: HERE

Fan translation (on Tumblr) : HERE; (on Imgur) : HERE

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Just saw this on Tumblr, and what the dick? Is it real? Horribly out of context? Can anyone translate it?

https://31.media.tumblr.com/b9516112fff9ecdacd12b9226b67c295/tumblr_n6c6s3ZdVH1tzo2bvo1_500.jpg

Warning for potential shipping spoilers!

[(Anonymous)]

It's just fanart; you can tell from the watermark in the top right :P

[(Anonymous)]

NA: I don't even ship it but UNF.

[(Anonymous)]

This Eremika porn doujinshi has been around for a while. You're not the first to be fooled by it.

[(Anonymous)]

So can we also discuss spoilers (summaries, pics) here before the actual chapter is out? Just checking.

[silkycuttle]

Yep, spoilers are welcome here, as soon as you find them :)

CAUTION PROBABLY A FAKE SPOILER

[(Anonymous)]

From 4chan:

>Do you think a fake can win over the real thing?
>Zacklay (the supreme commander guy at Eren's trial) is ahead of Erwin's arrest
>"Looks like it's just humans that want to kill us now instead of titans. But what we must do to survive doesn't change. Does it?"
>Mikasa's "I'm already experienced" line makes Jean open his eyes wide and tremble
>Christa undoes his bindings and finds herself in some sort of reception room. Looks like Eren was taken underground.
>A "Dad! Tomorrow is now!" scene. (not sure what this references.)
>Moblit's survival confirmed. He was just doing some investigation at Hanji's request.
>Pixis and Keith meet clandestinely.
>Direct anchor hurts even Keith (what?)
>Leg shot. While grappling with each other both fall to the ground.
>"Are you alive? Should I help you, Corporal?"
>Kenny: "You are... Mikasa, right?"
>"Clash! Ackerman vs Ackerman!?"

It's way early for text spoilers, though, so this one might be a convincing fake.

Re: CAUTION PROBABLY A FAKE SPOILER

[(Anonymous)]

Probably fake, but I really wouldn't be surprised if this is how is does go.

Erwin is arrested for treason/trying to promote civil war/something similar. Pixis and Keith quietly carry on without him. Eren and Historia are still not rescued. Jean freaks out that Mikasa has already killed people, and the 104th mobilise to help Levi who is wounded in the fight with Kenny. Mikasa picks up the baton in that fight. It probably ends on a dramatic mid-battle cliffhanger.

I'm guessing the fake vs. real is referring to the crown. What I don't really understand is how they're meant to put Historia on the throne even if it is rightfully hers – it's not like the court and society as a whole is just going to accept her word for it, and other evidence can be silenced easily or outright ignored.

Re: CAUTION PROBABLY A FAKE SPOILER

[(Anonymous)]

Mikasa's "I'm already experienced" line makes Jean open his eyes wide and tremble

Hawt.

have you seen the spoilers for chap 58?

[(Anonymous)]

I have only one thing to say about the spoilers and it's JEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.../fades into the distance

No but really. Really. Wouldn't it be weird at this point? He got this whole slew of character development and all this hinting at him going to be a leader in the future and all that talk about not wanting to die a meaningless death and then suddenly???? killed off by random thug in a skirmish??? I mean, it could happen (look at how Isayama killed Mike or Marco) but it would be such a huge disappointment to me, I just...augh.

I'm sort of thinking the page is meant to be the dramatic cliffhanger and then the next shot is Mikasa returning the favor (we never got a follow up from him saving her life) but yeah. Who knows. I don't dare making bets.

Sorry, I just wanted to scream a little about the spoilers.

Re: have you seen the spoilers for chap 58?

[(Anonymous)]

LINKS????

Jean has had such investment by the narrative, I'd be surprised if he's killed. But, well, not too surprised.

Re: have you seen the spoilers for chap 58?

[(Anonymous)]

I had precisely the same reaction and ALL THE FEELS!!! before I realized that it's not too likely because of his character arc and because Isayama has a pattern of fakeout deaths at chapter ends. If someone gets killed, it tends to be up front and clear.

That arc of blood at the end of the scene strongly suggests that the enemy fighter is beheaded by Mikasa, rather than shot by Armin.

[(Anonymous)]

So the census seems to be that Armin will grab a gun from under his cloak and shoots the guy, saving Jean?

Damn, I hope so. It'll mean Armin joining Eren and Mikasa in people who have killed human (in human form, that is, not titan). And it might push Jean out of his 'killing humans is not what I signed up to do' opinion.

[(Anonymous)]

Yeah, seems like it. One person on tumblr had that theory even before we saw the upper part of the cliffhanger page, based solely on Armin's expression and Jean's comment in a a text spoiler that you can't use a gun with 3dmg.
But with that page of Armin reaching under his cloak the likelihood of him popping his murder cherry to save Jean has risen considerably.

And yeah, I really want to see it happen, too. It'll be interesting to see how Armin will cope with it. He has been the most mentally prepared for killing someone, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's still shaken, even while he rationally knows that he did the right thing.

As for Jean, it's very likely that this will be his wake up call. I like his softness and regard for human life and can sympathize with him, but in the current situation his attitude is a liability. I'm curious to see how this will affect his relationship with Armin, too. Jean's never agreed with Armin's stance on needing to make sacrifices and killing people in this situation, but if Armin wasn't like that, Jean would be dead.

Last but not least, Mikasa's exact reaction should be interesting to watch, too, and and I figure that Sasha and Connie will have a word, too.

Basically, this turn of events should lead to some nice character development in future chapters.

(Oh and I've seen some people claim that Jean's hat falling of makes no sense if he wasn't shot, but the corpse of the woman will probably fall on top of him. Pretty sure that the worst that'll happen to him will be that he ends up splattered with gore.)

[(Anonymous)]

(above anon who was freaking out here)

Yeah, the more I look at that page the less it looks like Jean is the victim. Though you can never tell and I won't be relaxed until I see the baby being fine in August.

To me it looks like there are equal chances of it being Armin or Mikasa saving him. Armin is reaching under his cloak, but that long slash of blood seems more likely the product of a blade like the one on Mikasa's 3dmg. But who knows. I'd like to see either thing.

Anyway this really seems to be the "Jean will have to make his moral decision" moment. And as much as I sided with him during the previous chapter I agree that he'll go with the sensible decision and end up shooting somebody. But he won't like it.

Also I finally understood what the heckie that "anti-human 3dmg" thingie was. It's basically 3dmg with guns instead of blades. It's clear now that the upper echelons of the MP are definitely in contact with the mysterious "Titan village", or at least the Ape Titan, in case people still had doubts.

I got into the Levi vs. Kanye duel much more than I thought I would. It had this Western vibe to it, with Kanye being all boastful and mocking and Levi being Levi and the whole scene in the bar, I was just wow all the time. I don't like Levi as a Captain but as an action hero he's sure amazing. Btw, Kanye woke up unscathed from a shoot right in the chest, which is another score for him being Monkey Trouble, or at least some other sort of Titan (the Ape Titan didn't know what 3dmg was, right?).

I didn't see that ending coming and neither did Eren, lol. Also hello Eren and Historia, nice to see you two again. I'm happy nobody ate Eren. Mostly for the person who would attempt such a thing. I'm reasonably sure nobody can just go and eat Eren with impunity. Hell, it has already been attempted, and he was short a arm and a leg at the time, and it still didn't stick.

CHAPTER 58 SCANLATED

[(Anonymous)]

Here [http://worldofchicken.tumblr.com/post/88154221264] on tumblr. (Warning: very image heavy. It's all on 1 page instead of individual pages like a reader, and they all try to load at once, so it takes it's time.)

Re: CHAPTER 58 SCANLATED

[(Anonymous)]

There's also an imgur album of it here [http://imgur.com/a/Ne8xC] by [http://fuku-shuu.tumblr.com/post/88148622192/live-translation-typesetting-post-for-shingeki-no].

[(Anonymous)]

One thing that's really bothering me about this is people interpreting Armin shooting the woman as Armin becoming darker in character, more morally ambiguous and heartless, and generally more like Erwin the fanatic. Not necessarily here, but in a lot of meta I've read.

Assuming Armin does shoot her, I really don't see it. Both Eren and Mikasa have killed for the same reason – or an even more shaky one, because they were strangers before they murdered to defend each other, and Eren premeditated it. People are just shoehorning anything Armin says or does into this preconceived idea of him having a descent-into-moral-greyness character arc, without actually standing back to examine whether it's actually happening as per his actual actions.

Related to his is Isayama's interview where he says that Armin is not going to always be good friends with Eren. People are reviewing his actions with it in mind as an assumed and inevitable end-point. If you're assuming something, you're looking for it, and you're probably going to find it. Whether it's actually there or not is another matter. I honestly don't think that Armin has done much to be considered so morally ambiguous, or to stop being Eren's close friend. Maybe for the latter they'll just drift apart, but not the moral thing. He might be more so than some, but he's definitely less than others, and doesn't stand out in the way people like to characterise him as doing.

[(Anonymous)]

Word on Armin, especially this "If you're assuming something, you're looking for it, and you're probably going to find it".

If I had to play devil's advocate, though, morally ambiguous! or evil!Armin theorists probably get stuck on his recent creepy faces and him learning to manipulate people. To be fair, in a good number of manga these things can be a red flag that indicates some sort of future descent into darkness, but Armin hasn't actually done anything bad yet. Killing that woman to protect Jean is not morally ambiguous at all and all his manipulations were ultimately there to avoid (more) fighting. (Even setting Bertholt off ultimately led to him surviving rather than him having to battle to the death to keep Eren.)

As for Isayama's comments in his talk with Araki: other translators have indicated that he's not worded it as extremely as some translations might sound and that he was actually politely disagreeing on Araki's "birth of a dictator" comment regarding Armin. (From what I heard that's how Japanese fans interpreted it, hence they're not freaking out about it like western fandom.)

But yeah, Armin's been so far unhappy about having to be this way (otherwise he wouldn't talk about them being no longer "good") and whenever there was some action he's been protective and self-sacrificing for the sake of his friends. He might want to be ruthless because he thinks that's what needed to win, but at the same time he is still caring and sensitive. And this is apparently the part around which a good chunk of fandom can't wrap their mind around.
Probably because so much media codes manipulativeness as an evil trait, same as accepting the need to kill before the action goes down.

hahahaha no

[(Anonymous)]

http://shitstavneedstosee.tumblr.com/post/88053273090/wait-so-we-all-know-jean-is-wildly-in-love-with

That's manpain that's gotta be saved up for Eren!

Re: hahahaha no

[(Anonymous)]

I can see Jean, once he deals with the main part of the grief, turning very cool-headed and a good leader if Mikasa dies for him. As in, it spurs him to realise that everything is a mess, they are at war, and they all need to do their absolute best to come out on top. He was very close to Marco, and though Marco didn't die for him, Jean got over his death and became all the stronger for it.

But yeah, it could shake the Eren-Jean-Armin dynamic up a lot. Armin could possibly get over it, after a lot of mourning, but I'm not sure Eren would so easily.

2 questions

[(Anonymous)]

Someone said to me last night that the enemy soldier looked kind of like a female Marco, but without freckles.



Personally I don't see any resemblance, but what do other people think? Could that have been a factor in Jean's hesitation?

Also, in the final panel of that scene,



are the rectangular things sound effects in Japanese lettering, or could those be pieces of Mikasa's blade? And what's the round thing that's overlapping this row and the one above?

Re: 2 questions

[(Anonymous)]

Marco doesn't look anything like her. He had a very rectangular face, dark eyes, short hair, and a short and stubby nose. The soldier has an angular face, lighter eyes and long hair. I dislike it when people make anything and everything about Marco, when it comes to Jean, even though all evidence in canon the manga suggests he's long moved on. Besides that, making it because she looks like Marco just detracts from Jean's characterisation. His morals are against killing people, including complete strangers. Saying he hesitated because she looked like Marco sort of implies he would have shot her if she hadn't, which... isn't Jean, imo.

They're both the sound effects, from what I can see.

Re: 2 questions

[(Anonymous)]

I'm saying that as a BIG BIG Jean fan, but I think her being a woman might have made him hesitate further. (Plus, she looked kind of sad and pitiful with her bleeding nose for one panel.) So yeah, Jean's own sexism further screwed him over. And I don't think that him being sexist isn't illogical - SNK society outside of the military seems to be very patriarchal and his years in the military haven't necessarily made it all go away, even if his comrades are powerful women.

Mikasa

[(Anonymous)]

Am I the only one who doesn't think Mikasa was unhappy with Levi's order to kill the enemy on sight? She hesitates for a moment before she replies, but given her expressions in those panels and the preceding ones, and given that she's just learned that Eren is in more danger than she'd thought, I absolutely think she's looking forward to fucking a few people up. And I think Jean's reacting not only to her agreeing to kill people but to how much she sounds like she's relishing the prospect.

Re: Mikasa

[(Anonymous)]

I saw grim determination in her face, but not happiness? I suppose it's up to interpretation though, not everyone sees the same in someone's expression.